Would You Ride 10,000 Miles Tracking a Butterfly Migration?

Video Transcription:

Jim Dodson: Hey, good morning, it's Jim Dodson, the Florida bike guy. We're sitting here, looking for Katie to give me the signal there. So, welcome to our livestream. If you are new to the program, we're interviewing interesting people in the cycling world. Today, I have a wonderful guest on, Sara Dykman.

Jim Dodson: I think the--

Sara Dykman: Hello.

Jim Dodson: Say, hello, Sarah's comin' to us from Kansas somewhere. Is that right?

Sara Dykman: Yep.

Jim Dodson: Standing outside on a warm day in Kansas. Sara's got a fascinating story. I think I read about your story originally in Bicycling magazine. Had a nice big article about you.

Jim Dodson: So, the introduction is--

Sara Dykman: Yep, probably in the...

Jim Dodson: Go ahead.

Sara Dykman: I was just gonna say, it was probably in the Adventure Cycling magazine, which everyone should

Jim Dodson: Maybe it was

Sara Dykman: Check out.

Sara Dykman: Adventure Cycling. Correct, yeah.

Sara Dykman: Yeah.

Jim Dodson: Alright, would you ride your bike 10,000 miles to follow the Monarch migration pattern? Sara is someone who actually did that. Sara, tell us a little bit about your passion for butterflies and wildlife. Where does that come from?

Sara Dykman: Yeah, I'd love to. So, I love bikes and I love animals. I love exploring and the bike is just the perfect way. You're going slow enough that you see so many things that a car or an airplane would miss. And you get to kinda connect the dots between the most touristy places and really just get to know an area. I've been biking since I was little and I've always loved pushing myself. I got the idea to follow the Monarchs as a bit of a publicity stunt. I made plans to follow their entire migration. I didn't know a lot about the Monarch. I knew enough to start making a plan and I contacted scientists and read a lot of books and articles and went to Mexico, where they overwinter, in the overwintering colonies. In about the center of Mexico, in the state of Michoacan, and it was phenomenal. And when the Monarchs left in the Spring, in March, I followed them as best I could, all the way to Canada. I was observing them and meeting people and learning a lot. And then, once I was in Canada, I aimed my bike South and went back. And I wasn't following the exact same Monarchs, because they're multi-generational, but I was following their migration path. And I made it back to Mexico where they overwinter. That same forest. About 10,000 miles later.

Jim Dodson: And you did all this alone, is that right?

Sara Dykman: Well, the joke is that I did it with millions of Monarchs, but I was the only person biking, or butterbiking. I call my trip butterbike because I can't fly like a butterfly, but I can bike like a butterbiker.

Jim Dodson: Awesome. That's very fascinating. This trip that you took was in what year?

Sara Dykman: I started March and finished in November of 2017.

Jim Dodson: Okay, and how many miles did you ride?

Sara Dykman: Oops, sorry. I biked about... My total was 10,200 miles. I think 201. And I usually would try and go about 50 miles a day.

Jim Dodson: Alright.

Sara Dykman: I was stopping a lot along the way to give presentations, mostly to school kids. That would kinda force me to bike longer days, 60 or 70 miles and then have rest days to do presentations.

Jim Dodson: And this total trip took you 9 1/2 months, is that right?

Sara Dykman: Yep, just like the Monarchs.

Jim Dodson: We're gonna talk a little bit in a minute about the Monarchs and the whole migration pattern. Let's back up a little bit about... Sara, you actually have a degree in wildlife biology, is that correct?

Sara Dykman: Yep, yep.

Sara Dykman: From a school in California called Humboldt.

Jim Dodson: I think everybody knows where Humboldt college is. Even I know about it.

Sara Dykman: It's a great school.

Jim Dodson: And you had a particular interest in frogs and butterflies, from what you and I have discussed.

Sara Dykman: Yeah, I always have loved frogs. I think they're these amazing transformational creatures that go from water to land. From vegetarian to carnivore. From gills to lungs. People forget to look at them, they forget to see them and they just see some slimy, gross creature, but I get paid to study them and I get paid to go out and find them and catch their tadpoles. So when you're looking at them and really giving them time, you just see how incredibly beautiful and diverse and interesting they are. I've always loved frogs. And insects also, I think are kind of under appreciated. So it was an easy transition from frogs to insects and butterflies.

Jim Dodson: These species, particularly frogs and butterflies, are what you have called, I think in our conversation, a sentinel species. Is that correct? A species that-- Go ahead.

Sara Dykman: Maybe indicator species is what I said?

Jim Dodson: Well, it's a species that tells us the health of the diversity of our environment. Is that correct? What's the word?

Sara Dykman: And I call that indicator species, but I'm sure there's other names for it too.

Jim Dodson: Okay, alright.

Sara Dykman: I like to think they indicate the health of the planet. So if frogs worldwide are declining, and that's in large part due to climate change, habitat loss and pollution.

Jim Dodson: Right.

Sara Dykman: Frogs breathe through their skin, so if there's any problems at all in the environment, the frogs are the first to go. Worldwide, we're seeing frog declines and we can learn from what they're saying. Not with words, but with their population, how the planet's doing. And it's not good. Monarchs are really similar. Over the last 20 years, scientists have found really dramatic declines in their population, and that tells us something is wrong. That means something is wrong in our own backyards in North America.

Jim Dodson: Right. Yeah, we talked before our program about, as you were making this migratory ride, how upsetting it was to you to see the sterile environments we're creating along our roadsides and our yards. Talk to me a minute about that.

Sara Dykman: Yeah, biking puts you up close and personal with the world, so you get to see the beautiful parts and you get to see the ugly parts too. Or the parts that you wish that you could change. I spent hours and hours and hours biking along roadsides that either had been mowed or sprayed and all that potential was just erased. Mostly, in a lot of cases, because we think green grass looks more beautiful than a wild prairie. I've trained my eyes to see, when I see a wild lawn or when I see a lot that isn't mowed, I see the potential and I see all the creatures, even when I can't see them from far away, I see all those creatures that are living and thriving and all the birds and reptiles and mammals that space attracts and gives space to live. I saw the beautiful potential and then I would see a mower come by and just cut it down. You feel pretty powerless at that point. I don't own any land. You just think, man, if only that person knew what they were cutting down. And if only they thought, this land is not just mine. Like, I need to remember to share it with other creatures. So it could get really, really frustrating.

Jim Dodson: And I think we were talking about the fact that here in Florida, everybody plants the St. Augustine grass and we have mowed grasses, and you pay lawn services to come in and spray. Anything that moves really gets sprayed out of existence and it's quite an unnatural environment, really, from the diversity of animals and insects and reptiles and rodents and all that. We think it's good for us, but it's really not good for the environment. It's really not good for the environment in which we live.

Sara Dykman: Right, everything you spray ends up in your water. You're drinking that stuff that can kill. It can kill a Monarch caterpillar, so why do we think it won't hurt us as well?

Jim Dodson: Right.

Sara Dykman: Not to mention all the resources that go into those chemicals and into that water and into mowing. It's pretty silly. We were taught that, we were trained to think that that's beautiful and we can change. We can start to plant gardens and put up little signs and talk to our neighbors. One of the greatest things I saw on my trip was, I visited a woman in Missouri who had this amazing garden. Her whole front yard was native plants. You could see right where her property line was because her neighbors had perfectly manicured grass. Except for there was this little pocket of milkweed and there's different species of milkweed and one called common milkweed, which is my favorite. It spreads by rhizomes, so the same plant will spread underground and then pop up. Some people are scared of this. My friend's plants had spread to her neighbors and because my friend had been speaking with her neighbor, the neighbor didn't mow that milkweed down and she left it. So I literally could see the spread of ideas and of habitat. That's how it happens. I tell folks I can't talk to every single person in North America, but if I talk to a handful and they talk to a handful, this idea can spread. We can literally spread milkweed as well as ideas.

Jim Dodson: And you're talking about milkweed for what reason?

Sara Dykman: Well, milkweed is the only plant that the Monarch caterpillars eat. It's a really special plant. It's called milkweed 'cause if you tear a little leaf, this milky latex comes out and that's a glue. It's a sticky glue that actually will glue shut the mouths of small herbivores, but it also is a poison or toxin that stops the heart. If I was to eat it, I would spit it out 'cause it's really bitter tasting and gross, but a caterpillar could actually eat that milkweed and then hold those toxins in its body and thus it becomes toxic as it eats more and more milkweed. The reason a Monarch adult butterfly is orange is because it's warning predators that it's now poisonous, because when it was a caterpillar, it ate milkweed.

Jim Dodson: Oh wow.

Sara Dykman: The milkweed is the only plant that the caterpillars can eat. The Monarch caterpillars. Each butterfly has a few host plants. The milkweed is in decline. It used to cover most of North America, especially the Prairie. All over the prairies of North America. Farms came in, herbicides came in, pesticides came in and all those things took away the habitat. Every year there's less milkweed and if there's less milkweed, there's less Monarchs.

Jim Dodson: Yeah. I think one of the things you and I have talked about is that as cyclists, we have a unique opportunity. People riding by in their cars at 65 or 70 miles an hour rarely take note of the things that we have an opportunity to observe. Particularly when we get away from our towns and cities into the countryside and see the bio diverse fields and the farms. The magnificent beauty that lurks there, particularly right beneath the surface of the plant.

Sara Dykman: Yeah.

Jim Dodson: And all that we can be doing to encourage that and discourage its destruction, really.

Sara Dykman: What can we be doing? Yeah. It's amazing because in a car, if you see something interesting, you just can't stop. Inertia is not your friend in a car, but on a bike, well, one; you're tired. And any excuse to stop, I like. I'll see something out of the corner of my eye and I'll slam on my brakes and I'll be in the ditch looking. It actually caused, twice, the cops to show up 'cause people called 911 thinking that I had crashed. I'm like, "No, no. I'm just looking for butterflies." They're like, "What?" Yeah, so when we have those moments where we get to really interact with the world that we live in, that makes us want to do something about it. It's harder to ignore. Was your question "How can we help?" or were you just making a comment?

Jim Dodson: No, I think it's an encouragement for us that we can take it upon ourselves to be better informed. To be more than just passers by in the environment. To understand it and do what we can do to enhance it.

Sara Dykman: Yeah, and the more you do that, the easier it becomes and the more you keep realizing, oh yeah, there's more and more and more to see. It feeds itself.

Jim Dodson: Let's talk a minute about your background. You told us you went to college. Where were you born and raised and where'd you spend your youth?

Sara Dykman: I grew up in the suburbs of Kansas City. Didn't really have any access to nature, but I liked to ride my bike. I thought it was super far away, but it was like 3 or 4 miles. These massive adventures. Then I went to college and I got exposed to a lot of people that did more outdoor things. I loved it from the start. Keep pushing myself and my friends pushed me.

Jim Dodson: I know you had an adventure when you were in college too. You bought your first real bike, you bought a Cannondale.

Sara Dykman: Right, that was actually high school. I saved up my money

Jim Dodson: That's right.

Sara Dykman: And did a trip through an organization called the Student Hosteling Program, which is out of the East Coast and they run trips and I chose the 1,000 mile trip 'cause I thought that sounded amazing. And it was. It was a month long. I think we were all 14 or 15 or 16 except for the leader. The leaders were 21 and 24. We were just a bunch of kids just proving to ourselves that we could use our own bodies to get far and have an adventure. It was really remarkable.

Jim Dodson: And that trip was 1,000 miles over 30 days, is that right?

Sara Dykman: Yep, yep. Something like that.

Jim Dodson: to Canada.

Sara Dykman: Mm-hmm.

Jim Dodson: Yeah. And then you went to college, you got involve in advocating for non-motorized transportation. You got involved in another tour, tell us about that one.

Sara Dykman: After college, my friends and I were all really linked by the bicycle. Like you said, we did all that advocacy work. We were just really passionate about pushing ourselves and pushing our communities and we decided, let's go on a bike tour. My friend got the idea to bike to... He was thinking either 48 or 49 states and we decided 49 sounded better so we spent about a year making a plan, including a route, to bike to 49 states. Literally just planning the route was pretty difficult because of Winter. Our mantra was, It's gonna be cold somewhere. And it was. But during that time, we decided also, that we wanted to share our trip and share what we were learning with people, so we started doing presentations to schools. We were not educators. We had no experience with any of that, but we learned as we went and we ended up presenting to about 100 schools.

Jim Dodson: Wow.

Sara Dykman: We got a lot better. A lot better. And it was really amazing.

Jim dodson: So how far was that trip? 49 states, how long?

Sara Dykman: It was 15,000 miles and took 13 months.

Jim Dodson: Wow. And you basically told me you were living essentially on $5 a day, is that right?

Sara Dykman: Yeah, something like that. I can't remember. It was mostly either we cooked, and that didn't cost much money. We never paid for camping, we would just... We call it guerrilla camping. Stealth camping, people call it too. People got word of our trip and they wanted to help us, so they'd invite us in and give us a place to stay, a shower, laundry, a meal. That really carried us pretty far.

Jim Dodson: That's amazing.

Sara Dykman: Yeah.

Jim Dodson: Then after that, you ended up taking another trip from Bolivia to Texas. This is before the butterfly migration. I think this is where you got the idea originally, is that correct?

Sara Dykman: Right, yeah. But I really wanted to go on an adventure in a foreign country. I made contacts with someone in Bolivia and I spent a bit of time there working with a frog that's really special, called the giant frog of Lake Titicaca. You should look it up, it's very cute. Then I decided I was gonna ride my bike and I brought my bike. Luckily, I had a friend that wanted to do it with me. Our goal was to get to the United States. We made it to San Antonio, Texas and was like, "That's enough!" But I really, really loved especially Bolivia, Peru and Mexico. They were my favorites.

Jim Dodson: I was just saying when we had this little glitch there for the last 30 or 40 seconds, what a reminder Sara's life is and her work, for me, for all of us I think to be more aware of the amazing diversity around us and to be mindful of what we can do to enhance it and really take steps not to make it worse. I think one of the things that we were talking about, Sara, you were talking about the trip from Bolivia to Texas. I think during that trip you got the idea of tracking the Monarchs.

Sara Dykman: Right.

Jim Dodson: Tell me how that came into effect. Tell me a little bit about the Monarch and why that butterfly is so attracted to you. What's so unique about them? I think we've all heard something about the migration but I doubt any of us know that much about it.

Sara Dykman: Yeah, the Monarch is a really special insect. It's a special creature that all of North America gets to take some... What's the word I'm looking for? They get... I don't know. I'll come back to that idea.

Jim Dodson: It's a particularly beautiful species to me. We have domestic population here in Florida, they're not all migratory, is that correct?

Sara Dykman: Right, yeah, some of yours are resident. They used to be more migratory, but as climate change has changed, it's a better spot for them to spend the Winter.

Jim Dodson: Right.

Sara Dykman: But the biggest population of Monarchs lives in Mexico from basically November to March during the winter and they live at about 10,000 feet above sea level. It's the perfect temperature. It's basically not too hot and it's not too cold. It allows them to survive. In March, they start to get more active.

Jim Dodson: Let me just interrupt you, Katie just put up an image, I'm not sure if you saw it, which was a tree. What you saw in that tree, it looks like heavy bark, is really millions of Monarch butterflies clinging to the bark of that tree, is that correct?

Sara Dykman: Yep and those are called Oyamel Fir trees. The trees are really important because the branches act like a roof and an umbrella to keep them at that perfect temperature so that they can survive. If it was a little warmer, they would be more active. When animals are active, they burn more calories, so they would use up all their fat reserves.

Jim Dodson: Okay.

Sara Dykman: They're not eating. It's kinda like hibernation, but not quite. They're living there in those mountains. They're basically just waiting for Spring. And when Spring--

Jim Dodson: So this one particular location in Central Mexico.

Sara Dykman: Yep.

Jim Dodson: And it's always the same location? It's got the perfect micro climate for this species to survive over the Winter.

Sara Dykman: Right, and there's a few colonies they're called, which is a big cluster, that take up several trees, but they're in a very, very small area. There's only that one tiny spot. It's way up in the mountains where the temperature is perfect.

Jim Dodson: Wow, and how do they measure the health of the Monarch population?

Sara Dykman: Scientists in the Winter will basically measure how many trees are covered or how much acreage is covered in Monarchs. It would be impossible to count each branch and each butterfly on the branch, so they basically think, how much space are they taking up? If they're taking up more space, there's more Monarchs and if less space, there's less. They started doing this about 20 years ago and they actually measure in hectares. I looked it up 'cause I wasn't sure, but 1 hectare is about 2 1/2 acres.

Jim Dodson: Right.

Sara Dykman: And an acre is about a football field. The highest recorded since they started doing this technique was about 18 hectares of land. Last Winter it was 2 1/2 hectares.

Jim Dodson: You've told me that that can vary year by year based on a number of factors, including the weather, temperature and that kind of thing.

Sara Dykman: Right, yeah all healthy populations in the wild fluctuate year to year. There'll be a drought, there'll be lots of whatever they need to eat. That's totally normal, the problem is they're going up and down but there's a trend down. There's a trend toward zero, which would be extinct. The Monarch is not in danger of extinction, there's Monarchs distributed worldwide, but this migration, which is the only multi-generational, multi-national migration could disappear in our lifetimes.

Jim Dodson: Wow, that's amazing.

Sara Dykman: So it's a serious problem.

Jim Dodson: Talk to me a minute about... We're gonna get to the bike in a minute, folks. That's fascinating in and of itself. This migratory pattern of the Monarchs is multi-generational, so tell us what that means.

Sara Dykman: When spring begins, the Monarchs in Mexico will start flying North and they'll breed along their route and the females are looking for milkweed, which we talked about already, the only food source of the Monarch caterpillars. They start finding that in Texas and they'll lay one egg per milkweed, so that when the egg hatches, we have the caterpillar, which eats the milkweed. After the females have laid their eggs and after the males have mated, they die. The eggs that the females laid will undergo metamorphosis from egg to caterpillar, chrysalis, adult. That will be our first generation and the will continue going North. They'll only live about a month and during this month, they're breeding and laying eggs. They'll die, those eggs will continue. And it will take about three generations to get to Canada. The caterpillars will start sensing daylight, where the sun is in the sky. The temperature and the quality of the milkweed, scientists believe. When it's time, instead of being sexually active, they will emerge from their chrysalids as non-sexually active or they're in diapause and they will fly all the way back to Mexico. These are the great-great grandkids that have never been to Mexico, but they somehow know. They have a map in their DNA. They somehow to know to fly all the way back to the exact same trees as their great-great grandparents. It's just a phenomena.

Jim Dodson: It's a fascinating story. I think you told me that when they go North, they're sort of meandering. When they come South, they fatten up with milkweed.

Sara Dykman: Nectar, yeah.

Jim Dodson: Nectar. They make a beeline for that place they're going to. The mountain.

Sara Dykman: Right. One reason it was so easy for me to follow them on a bicycle, I wasn't literally following one Monarch and I wasn't following a line of them, but since they spread out and they're looking for milkweed, as long as I was in Texas in April, I was gonna see a Monarch, which was really nice. In the fall, I was catching the Monarchs but I'm slower than a Monarch that's charging ahead, so I saw Monarchs in the fall. They're a lot more direct.

Jim Dodson: Talk about the ride itself. I think a lot of people couldn't imagine doing it as a single woman. Through this territory. I think we have the perception here, so many of us, that it's not a safe place to ride. Particularly by yourself, either a man or woman. Talk about that a little bit and talk about your adventure.

Sara Dykman: Yeah, whenever I go on a trip and people tell me about all the bad things that could happen, I ask them, "Tell me a personal story. "Tell me something that directly happened to you." And pretty much no one can, so we hear the bad things on the news. We don't hear the good things. I felt totally safe. I felt safer, a lot of times, in Mexico than I do on a busy road and the alleys. It was a really amazing experience. When I'm in Mexico, I only hear the news of the United States. I'll tell you what, it sounds scary. We have to put news in context and we have to just remember that we only are hearing the worst of the worst.

Jim Dodson: One of the things you talked to me about was that drivers are expecting the unexpected in Mexico and Central and South America. In the United States, it's totally different. Explain that.

Sara Dykman: This is just sort of a theory I've developed with no scientific backing. My experience has been, in the United States, people see the lines on the road and they see the speed limit and it's, "That is my right. "I am entitled to go that speed in this lane. "It doesn't matter who is there. "Nothing matters but that I get to do that." And I don't think that's necessarily true in other countries I've been to. I've noticed that people are ready for the pothole or they're ready for a family walking down the street and they slow down and go around. There's plenty of great drivers in the United States, but there's plenty of people that think that I am a hassle and I am not worth five seconds to slow down for, and it's pretty frustrating. I was telling you I think that every single person should have to spend a year riding their bike to work before they get their drivers license so that they can remember that there's a human being on the bicycle and it's scary. It only takes five seconds to slow down!

Jim Dodson: No, that's a really good point. It'll never happen but I love the point. We can't even get an anti-texting bill up here without a big battle over it. Talk to us about the bicycle you made for these trips that you're on. I think I'm fascinated by that too.

Sara Dykman: I made a bike, I basically wanted just a sturdy bike that would get the job done, so I went to a bike co-op in Santa Cruz, in California and my friend and I pieced together I call it a Frankenstein bike. It's a specialized frame, just random parts new and used. Nothing matches and when things break, I can usually figure out some way to make it work. My panniers in the front, they're Ortliebs. Store-bought, waterproof, normal panniers and in the back, I use kitty litter buckets. The whole thing kinda looks a little trashy, but that's actually kind of important to me, because as a traveler, I don't have to worry about my bike getting stolen like someone might that has a really fancy carbon fiber, all new gear. Yeah, that was a picture of my bike. It's kinda rusty but it gets the job done. It's a smooth, great bike.

Jim Dodson: Katie, put it up again, if you would. You can keep talking though, Sara.

Sara Dykman: You can see everything just sort of bungeed on there haphazardly.

Jim Dodson: How much gear do you think you carry with you? How much weight do you have?

Sara Dykman: My butterfly trip, I carried a lot of gear. I was making educational videos, I was doing the presentations and I was trying to maintain my blog and my website, so I had a tripod, I had a laptop. I told people I carried about 60, 70 pounds of gear, which is a lot. My bike was really heavy and I went really slow.

Jim Dodson: Yeah, I can imagine. People up here get all in a lather about half a pound.

Sara Dykman: Yeah

Jim Dodson: their bike. Did you have any incidents, anything that was curious? Anything unusual, that you didn't expect on the road? I know you really told me you had no negative events. Right? The whole trip.

Sara Dykman: No, yeah. People were good. I've done a lot of bike touring. I joked that... I was in Long Island, I heard a car coming and it drove really close to me and I was like, "Oh boy, here we go." 'Cause I have had people spray me with water and yell things. They do the thing with the exhaust. I don't know how they do that, but they do it. Yeah. I was ready for the worst and this guy throws his arm out the window and he throws $10 at me. Like, "Get yourself some..." I forget what he said. But I remember thinking that's never happened before. Never had people throw money at me. I've had a lot of crazy things happen and people still can surprise me.

Jim Dodson: Well Sara, I really wanna encourage you. I think that you're a fascinating guest. I think the work that you're doing is fascinating. I think one of your desires is to bring attention to the issues affecting our environment and the Monarchs in particular, but other species as well.

Sara Dykman: Right. Yeah, to share the planet. The Monarch is so amazing. I call the Monarch democratic because it doesn't matter if you live in New York City or a small town in Kansas, the Monarch will visit you if you plant milkweed. It doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, republican, democrat, black, white. The Monarch will come to your town if you have milkweed and it doesn't take a lot of space. I stayed with a family in Tulsa who just had about 10 milkweed plants in their backyard and they had about 40 caterpillars. And even if only one of those caterpillars survives and is female, she'll lay 500 eggs.

Jim Dodson: That's amazing.

Sara Dykman: And then those kids, 1% of eggs become adults, so if she laid 500 eggs, that might be 5 adults. It grows exponentially, so literally every yard counts. You can plant some milkweed and some native plants that flower, for the nectar, in a small, sunny corner of your yard and you can start start small and every year, you can add more and more and more and mow less and less and less. And water less and less and less. You're gonna start seeing not just Monarchs, but all sorts of other amazing creatures that you might not have ever thought to look at or notice. You can start to share the planet.

Jim Dodson: I think that's a great message and I've already talked to my wife, I have a corner of our yard that I want to do that with. We talked about it actually today, that I have been talking to Sara and we're gonna get some milkweed.

Sara Dykman: There you go.

Jim Dodson: Of course, I'm in Southwest Florida and milkweed is available here. Sara suggests going to a native plant store. A lot of information online, is that correct?

Sara Dykman: Yeah, there is. You wanna just make sure if you're buying starts that they haven't been sprayed with any herbicides or pesticides. You wanna try and get basically organic starts. Otherwise, the caterpillars will eat them and they'll get poisoned. If then if you're planting seeds, you wanna plant in the Fall. I'm not sure about Florida as much, but most milkweed seeds need to spend the Winter freezing and thawing and that's kinda what spurs them to germinate in the Spring. But yeah, lots and lots of information online and it's sort of regional. Specific to each state.

Jim Dodson: Our call to action today is, at Sara's request, that we all plant milkweed. I will tell you, I'll send you a picture of milkweed that I get, Sara.

Sara Dykman: Okay.

Jim Dodson Maybe I'll even get some butterflies on them in the Sring.

Sara Dykman: There you go. Sounds good.

Jim Dodson: Katie's running a trailer there, if you want more about Sara's mission, you can go beyondthebook.org. Learn about Sara and her amazing work. I'm Jim Dodson. Of course, my occupation's a lawyer. If I can help you or someone you know who has had an incident involving a bike crash or automobile crash or any kind of need for personal injury lawyer, I'm always here. There's certainly never a cost to talk about a case or a concern that you have. I've got a passion for representing cyclists, but we represent other people as well. So that's it for today, I'm Jim Dodson, the Florida Bike Guy. Sara Dykman, thank you so much for joining us. Godspeed for you and your work.

Sara Dykman: Thank you and I can't wait to see your milkweed.

Jim Dodson: Thank you very much, Sara.

Sara Dykman: Alright, Thanks for having me.

Jim Dodson: Signing off, take care. Bye.

Sara Dykman: Bye.

Jim Dodson
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A Florida injury lawyer, family man and avid cyclist who clients have trusted for over 25 years.